{"contentId":"1993019","authorDomain":"mschiavocampo"}

Hardship in the heartland

Hi all - Mara Schiavocampo here, reporting from the road on how people across the Midwest are being affected by the struggling economy. In Pryor, Oklahoma, the closing of Georgia Pacific caused many to lose their jobs, and it's clear when talking to the people there that the pain has been felt by the entire community. Over the course of the week, I'll be visiting Garden Plains, Kansas, Des Moines and Peoria to find out how people are faring in the farming communities, suburbs and urban centers as well.

I'll also be dropping in to Newsvine along the way to share some of my impressions and answer any questions you might have -- so feel free to drop me a line here.

For those of you visiting us here for the first time, please know that Newsvine is a social news Web site designed for members to participate in thoughtful discussions about news-related topics. Feel free to take a look at the Newsvine Code of Honor, a short list of standards that existing members hold themselves to here.

{"contentId":"1993019","authorDomain":"mschiavocampo"}
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{"commentId":3461775,"authorDomain":"crazywolf"}

Thank you for reporting from the Heartland(North Dakota to Texas).  Some people tend to forget that alot of us live in the middle section of the country.  We have the same problems and heartaches.  Same dreams and schemes.

{"commentId":3461775,"threadId":"387328","contentId":"1993019","authorDomain":"crazywolf"}
  • 3 votes
Reply#1 - Mon Oct 13, 2008 2:15 PM EDT
{"commentId":3462403,"authorDomain":"insist09"}
insist09Deleted
{"commentId":3466083,"authorDomain":"cargoyle"}

To insist09

Can I ask in reading Mara's notes here it's depressing indeed to see the state of affairs for the American farmer. My first exposure was years ago when I watch the movie Country.

Can I ask is it the wages you pay and that's why it's hard to find workers?? Please don't misunderstand that wasn't meant as a slight towards you but a simple question, can the owrkers live on what the pay is??

Over the years when life has thrown it's curve balls I have often wanted to pack up the car with the dog and belongings and just find a farm to jst get "3 hots and a cot" and just be for a while! Never had the balls to do it but please don't feel that there aren't many out here that truly admire what you do!!

{"commentId":3466083,"threadId":"387328","contentId":"1993019","authorDomain":"cargoyle"}
  • 2 votes
#1.2 - Mon Oct 13, 2008 5:57 PM EDT
{"commentId":3467215,"authorDomain":"insist09"}
insist09Deleted
{"commentId":3514781,"authorDomain":"fugitive247"}

Hi, lost in the sauce. You asked:

can the workers live on what the pay is??

This perspective is based on life in an ag community located in the Ozark foothills of north central Arkansas. My county is consistently towards the bottom of the economic food chain for the entire state of Arkansas. Out of necessity, the practice of bartering for goods and services is still fairly commonplace. Farmers who can pay wages do, albeit sparingly. One can't pay in currency if they don't have any to spare.

Now, from a worker's standpoint... Haying a farmer's fields or mucking out goat pens strictly for barter might yield a couple of bushels of produce, some small livestock, a few bales of hay, or get one of the farmer's relatives to repair a transmission. But when the gas tank is empty, the mortgage is due, or the kids need new shoes, none of those goods/services providers are going to take that worker's hard earned hay bales (or whatever) in lieu of monetary payment. Such is the way of the financial world.

{"commentId":3514781,"threadId":"387328","contentId":"1993019","authorDomain":"fugitive247"}
  • 4 votes
#1.4 - Thu Oct 16, 2008 12:27 AM EDT
Reply
{"commentId":3463305,"authorDomain":"thenuckels"}

We, recently, traveled to the MidWest where we were married just to see how the area had changed over the years.  It was sad.  We covered territory down the West Coast, to TX - East to OH, and North to MN.  We went to neighborhoods where we had lived, shopped, and played when we were newly weds.  We found deteriorated neighborhoods, house after house for sale or foreclosed, empty strip malls, boarded up businesses, shops, and factories throughout the area.  Areas in OH and IN were probably the most distressed.

The one bright spot was agri-business where large corporate farms with the large ethanol subsidies for corn are doing pretty well - small farmers - less so. We saw large factory farms - especially dairy and hog farms - that were spewing forth high concentrations of air, water, and olfactory pollution. 

Many of the people in these regions, basically, looked depressed - many walking around looking dazed, over-weight, and just struggling to move and stay afloat.  The only activity you see is people going in and out of WalMart and lots of big mega-churches.

{"commentId":3463305,"threadId":"387328","contentId":"1993019","authorDomain":"thenuckels"}
  • 2 votes
Reply#2 - Mon Oct 13, 2008 3:27 PM EDT
{"commentId":3464287,"authorDomain":"crazywolf"}

Another thing that is distubing is the way farmers are treated.  Everyone wants their food and wants it cheap.  The farmers get blamed for food prices.  A reality check is in order.  Farmers finally have gotten decent prices for their crops.  You should see the expense side that farmers have to deal with and it hasn't been just one year. 

{"commentId":3464287,"threadId":"387328","contentId":"1993019","authorDomain":"crazywolf"}
  • 2 votes
Reply#3 - Mon Oct 13, 2008 4:14 PM EDT
{"commentId":3471343,"authorDomain":"marascampo"}

Crazywolf,Tuesday's story is about farmers in Kansas. You might find it interesting.

{"commentId":3471343,"threadId":"387328","contentId":"1993019","authorDomain":"marascampo"}
  • 1 vote
#3.1 - Tue Oct 14, 2008 1:27 AM EDT
Reply
{"commentId":3467075,"authorDomain":"harrywales"}

Can I ask what other locations you will be visiting during this series of reports and would you like to speak to any of the following people I know:

A 62 year old personal trainer in Palm Springs (Dem), An African American soldier on a US airbase in Hawaii (GOP), a retired navy officer in Alabama (GOP), a former county chair of the Iowa GOP now studying to be a pastor in Missouri (GOP) and a pensioner in Washington state (Dem)

{"commentId":3467075,"threadId":"387328","contentId":"1993019","authorDomain":"harrywales"}
  • 1 vote
Reply#4 - Mon Oct 13, 2008 7:05 PM EDT
{"commentId":3471337,"authorDomain":"marascampo"}

Harry,

Thanks for offering to help with this series. Unfortunately we're not going to any of those places. Given logistical constraints, we had to choose five cities relatively close together.

{"commentId":3471337,"threadId":"387328","contentId":"1993019","authorDomain":"marascampo"}
  • 1 vote
#4.1 - Tue Oct 14, 2008 1:26 AM EDT
Reply
{"commentId":3467410,"authorDomain":"macwicker"}

mara,  i was an airline pilot for 38 years. we also have driven 40,000+ miles annually around this country.I lost my pension(thanks UAL) but can still enjoy life. jobs/opportunity are booming and while some small towns have shown decline,vast majority are thriving. lets quit complaining,eat less pork, that will reduce previously mentioned pollution, then they will lose weight,and be happier,(?)  anyone noticed the monumental amount of activity building wind farms in Ca.,N.M., Tx., Ok.,Ar.,Mo.  etc etc  on and on..  C'mon people, stop painting such gloom and get a job! maybe send some  more scoundrels  who stole our trust and money to jail! oh,just kidding about eating less pork...bar-b-cued pulled pork rules!! 

{"commentId":3467410,"threadId":"387328","contentId":"1993019","authorDomain":"macwicker"}
  • 1 vote
Reply#5 - Mon Oct 13, 2008 7:28 PM EDT
{"commentId":3467589,"authorDomain":"john-johnston"}

I know it violates the "if it bleeds, it leads" philosophy of sensationalist journalism, but why don't you highlight those of us who are weathering this economic storm quite nicely.  You may find there are many nmore of us than you (liberals) might hope.

We are the folks who (1) Got an education and applied it (2) Worked hard all our lives and achieved some measure of success in our careers (3) Lived below our means - but lived comfortably (4) Saved our money and invested wisely and are now (5) living quite well and thoroughly enjoying our retirement years. 

Yes, I lost a lot of money in the recent downturn in the market, but since I planned well and did not squander my money when I was living on about half of my income while working, my wife and I are still quite comfortable with no significant financial issues.  We overshot our savings target by quite a bit and have faith that with continued good advice from the professional financial planners we consult, we will still achieve our financial goals.

I know many people who are similarly situated.  Instead of all the "woe is me" crap you publish, why don't you come talk to one of us.  It may give future generations some hope instead of the despair you seem intent on instilling in the populace.

{"commentId":3467589,"threadId":"387328","contentId":"1993019","authorDomain":"john-johnston"}
  • 1 vote
Reply#6 - Mon Oct 13, 2008 7:43 PM EDT
{"commentId":3474925,"authorDomain":"seward"}

John, brilliant comment. All we seem to hear from the Mass Media, (and yes, I count MSNBC as "Mass Media") is doom and gloom, how bad it is for people, how the poor dears have to scrape by. Losing their homes, losing their jobs etc.etc.

Well, in my lifetime I have lost many jobs, due to redundancy, ill-health, ageism, etc., yet I am still here, in my (now) rented home, getting by (just) on the British State Pension, and trying not to complain how "bad" things are.

Please don't think I am being heartless here, of course I feel for people who have lost their homes and jobs, I wouldn't be human if I didn't.

However, did these people not realise that this was coming?

You cannot continually build an economy (either a National one, or a Personal one) on Debt!

Live just within your means, save a little, and cut up those Credit Cards!

{"commentId":3474925,"threadId":"387328","contentId":"1993019","authorDomain":"seward"}
  • 3 votes
#6.1 - Tue Oct 14, 2008 10:47 AM EDT
Reply
{"commentId":3468566,"authorDomain":"thenuckels"}

John-in-Denver - Like you, my husband and I have lived frugally, saved and invested wisely, and while we have also seen a substantial drop in our investment balances, recently, we feel very fortunate and continue to live modestly, but comfortably. 

Most haven't been as fortunate as WE have been, maybe didn't have the opportunities that WE have had, maybe had health problems, family issues or some other situation that WE have not had to overcome.

Not all is lost, and it isn't 'woe is me' crap or some 'liberal' plot that is trying to ignore US.  It is that WE are the exceptions! To frame the issue by emphasizing the few like US who have been fortunate, and to ignore the millions who are in a great deal of economic stress in all parts of this country is pure denial.  Sticking our heads in the sand and going on our marry way just won't get it!

{"commentId":3468566,"threadId":"387328","contentId":"1993019","authorDomain":"thenuckels"}
  • 1 vote
Reply#7 - Mon Oct 13, 2008 9:05 PM EDT
{"commentId":3469251,"authorDomain":"Swell528"}
Swell528Deleted
{"commentId":3469392,"authorDomain":"Swell528"}

Shame on you.  Why did you become a journalist?  This article was written only one month Pryor - More jobs than people.

{"commentId":3469392,"threadId":"387328","contentId":"1993019","authorDomain":"Swell528"}
    Reply#9 - Mon Oct 13, 2008 10:20 PM EDT
    {"commentId":3485599,"authorDomain":"marascampo"}

    There are about 8500 people in Pryor. The Gatorade plant provided about 300 jobs. So that headline - "more jobs than people to fill them" - is an obvious exaggeration.

    Since the Gatorade plant opened, two others have closed, taking 600 jobs with them. 300 jobs gained at Gatorade minus 600 jobs lost. You do the math.

    {"commentId":3485599,"threadId":"387328","contentId":"1993019","authorDomain":"marascampo"}
    • 2 votes
    #9.1 - Tue Oct 14, 2008 9:31 PM EDT
    {"commentId":3496118,"authorDomain":"tyler"}

    Way to serve him, Mara, but Swell's only been here a day and these are his only posts.

    So Swell, you're suspended for a month. If you come back, don't troll MSNBC's contributors.

    Over the course of the week, I'll be visiting Garden Plains, Kansas, Des Moines and Peoria to find out how people are faring in the farming communities, suburbs and urban centers as well.

    Mara, did you pick those cities because they typified the communities, or because they were particularly intriguing for some reason?

    {"commentId":3496118,"threadId":"387328","contentId":"1993019","authorDomain":"tyler"}
    • 3 votes
    #9.2 - Wed Oct 15, 2008 2:31 PM EDT
    Reply
    {"commentId":3469519,"authorDomain":"Swell528"}
    Swell528Deleted
    {"commentId":3474317,"authorDomain":"caroaber"}

    Mara,

     I want to thank you for your thoughtful reportage from Haiti for NBC in the wake of the hurricane and tropical storms. The footage from Gonaives was unsettling. It helped move me to contribute to singer Wyclef Jean's foundation, Yele.

    Keep up the good work, and it's good to see you here on the Vine.

    {"commentId":3474317,"threadId":"387328","contentId":"1993019","authorDomain":"caroaber"}
    • 2 votes
    Reply#11 - Tue Oct 14, 2008 10:05 AM EDT
    {"commentId":3485624,"authorDomain":"marascampo"}

    Thanks so much caroaber...appreciate it.

    Wyclef seems to be doing great work in Haiti. Yele is an amazing organization. I'm sure they'll put your donation to good use, and the people of Haiti most certainly need it.

    {"commentId":3485624,"threadId":"387328","contentId":"1993019","authorDomain":"marascampo"}
    • 1 vote
    #11.1 - Tue Oct 14, 2008 9:33 PM EDT
    Reply
    {"commentId":3479576,"authorDomain":"davidbthelen"}
    David ThelenDeleted
    {"commentId":3482110,"authorDomain":"john-johnston"}

    Dear Greengal : 

    Just to set the record straight.....I started my first job in a strange town in 1967 with $20 in my pocket and talked my way into a rooming house until I could get a few paydays under my belt and look for something more permanent.  I was drafted and went to in the service where I managed to keep from getting killed.  I saved a pile of money initially there because there wasn't really anywhere to spend it unless you wanted to catch some strange diseases --- you know what I mean.  But it started me on my way to financial independence.

    Fast forward 40+ years and a thousand nights and weekends working away from family.  I took time out only to have cancer and heart disease, but survived both.  Although it meant some hardships, I stayed in the service for many years.  I then started over in a brand new career.  And finally left that a few years ago.

    In short, I made my own breaks and rolled with the punches life threw me.  What little family I had has been gone for years and they could not have helped me anyway.  So when you talk about opportunities and being fortunate, I bristle up a little.  Has all this made me a little cynical?  Probably.  But it has made me strong and resilient and not dependent on anyone to take care of me or my family.  Not the government, not you, and certainly not my friends and neighbors.

    So, to all the woe is me crowd I say "Buck up and make things work out."  And to you, Greengal, count your blessings, babe.

    {"commentId":3482110,"threadId":"387328","contentId":"1993019","authorDomain":"john-johnston"}
    • 1 vote
    Reply#13 - Tue Oct 14, 2008 5:11 PM EDT
    {"commentId":3485237,"authorDomain":"thenuckels"}

    John-in-Denver - I'll excuse you for the 'babe' reference, but don't think you are alone.  I do happen to count my blessings, and while you seem to be one who thinks that 'you did it all on your own', I can only ask you to take a second look!  Someone gave you that determination and resiliance if only in your dna!

    My story isn't a whole lot different than yours.  Poor working-class background, military service and married career military man, worked hard all my life from everything from waiting tables, clerical work, and finally going to college and entering the IT field.  We've lived modestly, we paid cash for our home, cars, and everything else we have.  Don't owe anyone for anything (financially, speaking) and have managed to save and invest.  I have been through a difficult divorce, raised 2 children, lost a treasured sibling, and spent a month on life-support just last year, so I know something about the ups and downs of life and will give no quarter to you or anyone else, sir.

    I still try to show compassion and resist passing judgement on others, even  those who are so arrogant that they can't acknowledge their debt to others even if it was only an accident of birth.

    {"commentId":3485237,"threadId":"387328","contentId":"1993019","authorDomain":"thenuckels"}
      #13.1 - Tue Oct 14, 2008 9:00 PM EDT
      Reply
      {"commentId":3490666,"authorDomain":"cynthiajoyce"}

      As someone who lives in New York and works for, yes, 'mass media', what I appreciate most about Mara's reporting is that it gives me a sense of what's really happening in places I don't get to very often...if ever. 

      I think in big cities and on the coasts, we're pretty insulated from the ups and downs of the economy. So the stock market almost crashed (or did crash - which is it?) -- it's not like there's suddenly a glut of affordable apartments in Manhattan. But to hear from a farmer whose selling prices have dropped by 50 percent in three weeks - now that gives me a tangible sense of the ripple effect this is having. As much as I'm heartened to hear of people who are weathering this well, they aren't the story here.

      {"commentId":3490666,"threadId":"387328","contentId":"1993019","authorDomain":"cynthiajoyce"}
      • 2 votes
      Reply#14 - Wed Oct 15, 2008 9:27 AM EDT
      {"commentId":3492349,"authorDomain":"ClosetOrganizer"}

      Mara:

      I read above that you are only visiting 5 cities that are close together for this series but due to the crisis facing this nation, you may find that your viewers are "thirsty" for more and if so, I would love to invite you to visit our facility in Newark, Delaware.

      You hear so much about plant closings and jobs being sent overseas but we are one small business struggling to keep manufacturing strong in America.  I sympathize with the farmers but what about us manufacturers who are trying to provide those jobs you keep hearing the politicians talking about that they will bring back to America?  There is no need for them to create new facilities - We are HERE already established with the infrastructure in place!  Send the work, help, and employees our way and we will give them the jobs that the politicians are promising!

      We did not get in this business to close the doors, put people out of work, and ship the jobs overseas.  We are here for the LONG haul but we need help too so that we can keep our employees and economy strong! 

      Again I invite you to share our story and hope for the future...

      {"commentId":3492349,"threadId":"387328","contentId":"1993019","authorDomain":"ClosetOrganizer"}
      • 1 vote
      Reply#15 - Wed Oct 15, 2008 11:05 AM EDT
      {"commentId":3498790,"authorDomain":"seward"}

      Mara, surely you can't refuse to take up Shelly's offer?  It would really make a good story. Manufacturing is so crucial at times like this.

      {"commentId":3498790,"threadId":"387328","contentId":"1993019","authorDomain":"seward"}
      • 2 votes
      #15.1 - Wed Oct 15, 2008 4:51 PM EDT
      Reply
      {"commentId":3501648,"authorDomain":"olivia-heimsness"}

      I am a 27 year old mother of 2 living a responsible life in a small midwest town. My fiance and I purchased our house 5 years ago when we found our we were having our first child. Every month the first payment we make is our house payment. It is the most important bill we pay so we make sure it's taken care of. We have two old used cars which means we have no car payments and low insurance premiums. We do not go out to dinner unless it is a very special occasion and we do not take vacations. Luckily we have a family member who is retired in a larger city who thrift store shops for all of our children's clothes. We go grocery shopping two times a month for staples. I scour the internet looking for cheap and healthy meals to feed my family. We both work full time for small businesses near our home to keep our gas bills as low as we can. We both contribute to 401K plans. WE DO NOT HAVE OR USE CREDIT CARDS EVER. My fiance has no debt and I have only medical bills as debt due to the fact my children went without insurance for a year and we had two emergency room visits. I do not have medical insurance. I have not had medical insurance since my daughter was born 3+years ago. I have attended some college and have returned to college to work towards an accounting degree. (Because I did research to find out the fastest growing and highest paid careers before I chose a path). The only thing in our lives that we spend a little more than we should on is daycare for our children. It is a very good pre-school center that we believe will give our children the best start possible to the rest of their lives. The extra money is worth it to give them that opportunity. It makes me so angry to hear people talk about how they took the correct path in life and if only the "woe is me" group would have made better decisions... There are so many of us out there who lead honest, responsible, hard working lives and are being told we're suffering because of something we did, a wrong choice we made.  I doubt every move that I make because somehow, with all of the decisions I've made with the best interest of my family at heart, I am getting nowhere. Our lives are not getting better. We have both gotten raises at work during the past five years and I thought that our finances would improve as we move up at work. Not so. We are in fact worse off now than we were making less money 5 years ago. I refuse to believe that I have done it all wrong and I deserve these circumstances.

      {"commentId":3501648,"threadId":"387328","contentId":"1993019","authorDomain":"olivia-heimsness"}
      • 2 votes
      Reply#16 - Wed Oct 15, 2008 7:29 PM EDT
      {"commentId":3518934,"authorDomain":"seward"}

      Here in Real Life, your story of struggle is just one of so many repeated all across America and Europe.

      When the Financial Markets catch a cold, it's always the ordinary people who sneeze.

      Although sometimes we think (quite wrongly) that because we do not have any investments like stocks and shares, we are unaffected, but this is the wrong way of thinking.

      The problems at the top, filter through and down to the ordinary man or woman in the street.

      They make us all suffer due to their greed and ineptitude.  What is even worse, is that our respective governments couldn't care less.

      I wish you and your family well. Try not to lose heart.

      {"commentId":3518934,"threadId":"387328","contentId":"1993019","authorDomain":"seward"}
      • 2 votes
      #16.1 - Thu Oct 16, 2008 6:02 AM EDT
      {"commentId":3553231,"authorDomain":"antonp74"}

      In your situation, it is apparant you are leaving something out.  Either you are in way over your head on your mortgage or you are in a very low paying job.  You most important bill is your insurance.  One slip and everything is over.

      {"commentId":3553231,"threadId":"387328","contentId":"1993019","authorDomain":"antonp74"}
      • 1 vote
      #16.2 - Fri Oct 17, 2008 3:24 PM EDT
      Reply
      {"commentId":3503360,"authorDomain":"rose-1"}

      I am the inventor of the Tibbe-Line, a device that can be used on an existing clothesline and can be made into a portable clothesline. (Hangers are used instead of clothespins. The Tibbe-Line is also multi-functional in that it can be used to transport clothing in a vehicle, as a space saver in a closet and for people in wheelchairs can access their own clothes.  I have cut my laundry time by more than half, my electricity consumption has gone down and my electricity bill has gone down as well.  I have made doing laundry faster, easier and more economic.  Please go to to see how the Tibbe-Line works. If you have a questions or need more information please feel free to email me at rose@tibbeline.com

      {"commentId":3503360,"threadId":"387328","contentId":"1993019","authorDomain":"rose-1"}
        Reply#17 - Wed Oct 15, 2008 10:02 PM EDT
        {"commentId":3552341,"authorDomain":"usfreedomfighter"}

        Certainly the time has come for the people all over America to reclaim power from Washington DC!

        The Federal Government has failed us in so many ways, leaving future generations with not only the highest recorded deficit ever, but with an America no longer seen as leader of the free World.

        We have to get back to basics: a free nation based on free people taking personal responsibility for ourselves led by small, efficient Governments on a State level close to the people, and a Federal Government taking care of our National Defense and Environment.

        If you are in doubt, I challenge you to read http://www.lp.org/platform, and once again find the common road our Founding Fathers so foresightedly created with the Constitution - the only thing that truly makes us Americans.

        {"commentId":3552341,"threadId":"387328","contentId":"1993019","authorDomain":"usfreedomfighter"}
        • 1 vote
        Reply#18 - Fri Oct 17, 2008 2:30 PM EDT
        {"commentId":3559420,"authorDomain":"ripvanwinkle79"}

        I wonder how many farmers won't be able to get loans to plant crops, or how many will plant far fewer acres because it just isn't worth it.  When I grew up in the 60's and 70's, times were such that if you couldn't get a good paying job, that was your fault... these last few years it doesn't matter what you have going for you, you can't find a job... period.  Yet Washington allowed the Chinese to fix their currency to the dollar and refused to budge.  Now, all the manufacturing has moved there.  Our economy was led by manufacturing. It's Washington's fault... it's all their fault.  Eight years of Bush and the republicrats and demogogs throwing our children's future into a f*^$ing rat hole.  I have already told my children that I would not blame them for leaving this future 3rd world country... its the only way.   Pledge allegiance to the flag my ass!  Not to the new amerika.  Best thing that could happen now... a military coup.

        {"commentId":3559420,"threadId":"387328","contentId":"1993019","authorDomain":"ripvanwinkle79"}
        • 1 vote
        Reply#19 - Sat Oct 18, 2008 12:59 AM EDT
        {"commentId":3559660,"authorDomain":"paulanddot"}

        The heartland  people being effected most are the ones who were ignorant enough to vote this idiot president  not once but twice into office.  Justice is arriving folks, next ellection look at the intelligence of who you vote into office and don't blindly follow a bunch of threats and promisses purposed by some moron politican. You red states got exactly what you wanted for 8 years now enjoy!

        {"commentId":3559660,"threadId":"387328","contentId":"1993019","authorDomain":"paulanddot"}
          Reply#20 - Sat Oct 18, 2008 1:36 AM EDT
          {"commentId":3559766,"authorDomain":"paulanddot"}

          All you red state heartland people voted a moron into office Not once but Twice. Next election you might look at the intelligence of whom you elect as president. Now reap what you sow and stop complaining. Enjoy your tuff times as this is what you apparently wanted and voted for.  Even now  I can see most of you will continue to support this party that has brought shame and financial ruin to this country. Wake up and think!

          {"commentId":3559766,"threadId":"387328","contentId":"1993019","authorDomain":"paulanddot"}
          • 1 vote
          Reply#21 - Sat Oct 18, 2008 1:56 AM EDT
          {"commentId":3560578,"authorDomain":"jdonnelly-1"}

          Farmers need not forget the blow deal to them by the great Ronald Regan.
          Please remember when you hear the term "spread the wealth" being used negatively that this is the same party that has no problem saddling the middleclass with "DEBT" to bailout the wealthies americans who have profited from wall streets drunk party, they will conceal it by saying that we have bought stock instead and that we will end up making money...LIES!!!
          Vote out all incumbents and do the same in 2012 to take back our country.

          {"commentId":3560578,"threadId":"387328","contentId":"1993019","authorDomain":"jdonnelly-1"}
          • 1 vote
          Reply#22 - Sat Oct 18, 2008 6:31 AM EDT
          {"commentId":3560820,"authorDomain":"davidbthelen"}
          David ThelenDeleted
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